Diffraction on Pro14n?

Discuss older Nikon-based Kodak digital SLRs, including DCS 100, DCS 200, NC2000, DCS 400/600/700-series, etc. Ask questions, post general comments, anecdotes, reviews and user tips.
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pieroc91
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Diffraction on Pro14n?

Post by pieroc91 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:30 pm

Hi everybody, some days ago i got a 14n, i like it so far, kind of clumsy software but works fine.

I took a few test shots and i noticed a haze problem, which is very strange. the test lens is a Micro-Nikkor 55mm f1:2.8.. is dead sharp and perfect on a D750, also it produces the problem on every aperture.

I want to know if my camera needs a deep cleaning of the sensor or if the sensor is just like that.

Here are some samples, the last one shows the problem https://imgur.com/gallery/ybnAXN7

Thanks!

pieroc91
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Re: Diffraction on Pro14n?

Post by pieroc91 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:01 pm

Also this even more strange problem where image shifts down when overexposed
https://imgur.com/gallery/f7KlK07

Stan Disbrow
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Re: Diffraction on Pro14n?

Post by Stan Disbrow » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:48 pm

Hi,

Looks like pixel bleeding to me. That is when high level light causes electrical charge to migrate thru the silicon to neighboring pixels which have a lower electrical charge because they have received less light.

I know Kodak had real issues with the non-Kodak sensor (Fill Factory made IIRC) in the 14n. They had to recall them and replace them, after which the model was called the 14nx. Later there were other changes which led to it being called the SLR/N.

This was at a time when Kodak was having trouble competing with Nikon and Canon, both of which had jumped on the DSLR bandwagon in a big way. And, also quit supplying Kodak with their modified high-end film bodies. Kodak had to switch bodies and, ironically, couldn't afford to use their own sensor technology any longer. So, they outsourced the sensor to gain full frame at a lower cost....

....And paid for it by having to drop out of the Nikon and Canon mount business and move into supplying sensors for the medium format market. And, also the Leica DMR. I think their last, or close to it, was the 40MP sensor used in the Pentax 645D.

Anyway, I never had a 14MP Kodak of any flavor, so I can't say from personal experience. But, I seem to recall this effect you have noticed was an issue with that sensor.

Stan
Amateur Photographer
Professional Electronics Development Engineer

pieroc91
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Re: Diffraction on Pro14n?

Post by pieroc91 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:32 pm

Hi Stan, thanks for your answer.

Yes, i'm thinking is actually a sensor problem since everything else is fine, tried also with a 105mm and the problem is the same, i've seen some bleeding issues but not as bad as this, to the point it looks like the lens had a haze issue.

Now having the 14n i completely understand why they broke, i have a NC2000E and i'm more pleased with the pictures of the NC than the 14n, i don't see how people was actually happy paying 5k for it, the NC is even a lot faster it turns on instantly, with a good card can be very competitive at fast shooting... if only it was bigger than 1.3mpx.

Stan Disbrow
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Re: Diffraction on Pro14n?

Post by Stan Disbrow » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:35 am

Hi,

They made a lot of the 1.3 MP units over several models, in both Nikon and Canon. That basic design allowed Kodak to simply buy a film body and stick their digital back on. I only had one like that, a 460, which was the first APS-H 6 MP. Had that alongside a Nikon E2. This was when everyone was dumping them for Nikon D1 units.

The D1 changed the game. More refined. Had an LCD on the back. And many other things. Now Kodak got special F5 variants from Nikon (and similar EOS 1N bodies from Canon). Those were now more refined. I still have a 520 (my Leica microscope has a Canon mount) and a 660m and a 760c. All get used regularly although they are all secondary to a Nikon Df now.

With the 14n, you have to compare it only to the Canon 1Ds. The first two full frame 135 format units, and the only ones back when the 14n came out. They were in great demand. And, the 14n wasnt the only one with pixel bleeding at that time.

Edit: And, I ought to add that with the Df, we come full circle. The original Kodak DCS was built on an F3. ;)

Stan
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Professional Electronics Development Engineer

pieroc91
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Re: Diffraction on Pro14n?

Post by pieroc91 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:24 pm

Since i knew about them i always wanted a 600 or 700 series, they still have that Kodak colours but in a bigger pixel count sensors, quite usable for today standards even... not like for prints but more than enough for displays.
So... you are saying the 1Ds also bleeds that bad? i'm going to look for pics

Aaaand oh yeah, i have the original DCS but without DSU, tried to build a new DSU with an FPGA but failed when it came to store the data (i got to see it was light sensitive though), that was a real sturdy machine, the dream of the digital F3

Stan Disbrow
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Joined:Fri May 20, 2005 7:33 pm
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Re: Diffraction on Pro14n?

Post by Stan Disbrow » Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:50 am

Hi,

It was the Canon 1D, 4 MP APS-H, that had a bleed issue. Worst of the bunch. Since it was a CCD, it bled in a streak rather than a blob. And, they were different since they read even lines to the right and odd lines to the left to increase reading speed. Well, it was a sports camera. Anyway, a bright spot then had streaks on both sides extending outwards left and right.

The 1Ds, 11 MP full frame, was a CMOS sensor and didn't have the 1D issue. But, it sometimes looked like these 14n shots. Blow out the center of a light in a shot and get a halo effect.

The 6 MP Kodak sensors are good for printing 8x10 and that was all I needed until we got this Direct To Garment printer in my wife's screenprinting business. That is 12x18 max and so larger than I had a camera for. So, I got a 16 MP Nikon Df. I still carry the 760c as a secondary body. Well, until I eventually get a second Df.

The 760c also does duty in my electronics lab as a 'macroscope'. I use a micro Nikkor and a copy stand with the chimney finder. Offers a larger view of a failed circuit board than my Leica microscope. ;)

Stan
Amateur Photographer
Professional Electronics Development Engineer

pieroc91
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Re: Diffraction on Pro14n?

Post by pieroc91 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:04 pm

Wow amazing the fact of the macroscope, tho i remember to use a reversed 18-55 kit lens as a loupe and the results were astonishing, using that and extension tubes i could even make very low contrast macros of small bug eggs.

Quite funny the 1D issue... i still can't imagine how people that pay a camera more than a car were ok with results that were much worse than film.
But well... i thank them to pave the road for the amazing digital cameras of today

Stan Disbrow
Posts:579
Joined:Fri May 20, 2005 7:33 pm
Location:Raleigh, NC USA

Re: Diffraction on Pro14n?

Post by Stan Disbrow » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:22 pm

Hi,

Well, the 1D issue wasn't too bad. It tended to show up when shooting existing light indoors with a lamp in the shot. Otherwise it was pretty decent. I got one because I had picked up a used 1Ds from a friend and so bought a couple Canon lenses to go with. Even though I mostly used Nikon manual focus lenses on the 1Ds with an adapter ring. Anyway, that led me to have a double setup with the Nikon D1H, D1X, Kodak 620x, kodak 660c, Canon 1D, Canon 1Ds, Kodak 560c and Kodak 520c. All at the same time. Madness!

But everything was a Work In Progress at that time. Everything early-onn winds up building rapidly on what came before. Eventually most of that kit would go while it still had decent value. I still have the 520c and the D1H. I then went and bought a Kodak 720x and a 760c new at the end of their lives when they went all fire sale. I kept them both until 2011 when I sold the 720x. I still have the 760c.

And, all this mess came about because I wanted digital to use my older Nikkor lenses on. I began with the Nikon E2. What a mess that was. Go read up in the Nikon section about that one. But, they sold cheap in the face of the D1. As did the Kodak 460c. My first two DSLRs. Combined cost less than a D1, but I didn't really save anything because I got a D1 anyway....

And, all of them had their issues with images. It didn't really get decent until the 760c. I guess that is why I kept mine.

Stan
Amateur Photographer
Professional Electronics Development Engineer

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